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charleyfarley 8:51 Sun Feb 11
⚽ West Ham v Burnley - Official Match Thread
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.   V 
London Stadium
Mar 10th 15:00
Lee Mason: (20) - 53  3 
Hart, Zabaleta, Collins, Ogbonna, Cresswell, Kouyate, Noble, Antonio, Mario, Lanzini, Arnautovic
 Pope, Lowton, Mee, Tarkowski, Ward, Cork, Hendrick, Westwood, Lennon, Gudmundsson, Barnes.
.Betway• West Ham 13/10: Draw 2/1 : Burnley 13/5
Streams
***** AS ALWAYS BE CAREFUL WITH VIRUSES ****
Weather
• Cloudy light rain max 12C
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Replies - Newest Posts First ( Show In Chronological Order)
Sir Alf
11:53 Mon Mar 12
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Burnley - Official Match Thread
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brick_lane_batty_boy
3:06 Mon Mar 12
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Burnley - Official Match Thread
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You've named the same players I have - I don't doubt there is a handful of quality players - I'm not saying they're all shit. My point is , a squad doesn't consist of 5 or 6 of the best players - A squad is 18 players at least.
It actually got to the point this season where I thought that if Antonio isn't playing - we may as well not turn up because there is nothing there going forward (before Arnie turned the corner).
As you say, two seasons ago Kouyate was superb - but where has he been last 18 months ? It's not only his legs, he can't even give a team mate a decent pass to feet.
Moyes and Bilic can't both be such terrible managers - or can they?
Januarys transfer window was the biggest farce since we moved grounds. Evras first contribution was to be beaten in the air at a corner against Liverpool ! Hugill hasn't kicked a ball. We needed re-inforcements - competition for places. Nobody is worried about getting dropped apart from Hernandez who can't get in the team - And on 140k a week, I'm not even sure he's that fussed
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Rossal
2:50 Mon Mar 12
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Burnley - Official Match Thread
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brick_lane_batty_boy 2:39 Mon Mar 12
I agree with you but why arent they? Down to the first team regime which the manager takes responsibility for IMO.
Antonio and Cresswell have been in recent England squads. Lanzini is in the Argie squad. Arnie was a world beater in December. Reid was coverted by top 6 clubs not long ago. Kouyate was immense final season at UP. Obiang was first name on the teamsheet for a period last season. The quality in the squad is there to certainly not go down like we are. We need a manager with quality to extract it all. We need a manager that can get players back to their best and get 8/10 preformances form the majority of the team each week
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Alex V
2:49 Mon Mar 12
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Burnley - Official Match Thread
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>>> 27/28 is not old for a footballer!!!! That is no excuse for me.
He could play on into his thirties. I am talking about physical decline. Being in decline doesn't mean a player is finished - in fact they can improve in other areas through experience and understanding. But it would affect things like the ability to get up and down the pitch. Kouyate is a similar example imo - not finished, but unable to perform at the insane level of physical commitment as before.
>>> Do you genuinely think he's looked good at centre back?
I think he looks a makeshift option and I'd be worried about opponents trying to exploit his lack of height. But I do think he's been our best centre-back this season. But that says more about the other options there, pretty much all of which have been awful. Ogbonna has improved playing as a straight stopper in the centre of a three, but as we saw against Burnley anything down the side where he has to turn or respond to threats is still a massive issue.
Sadly for Cresswell, I think the days where he might have been worth £25m+ at his peak have now gone. We've missed that opportunity. I'd guess he's still a solid pro around the squad and isn't on an obscene wage, and is homegrown too. I think he'll still be at the club at 32,
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brick_lane_batty_boy
2:39 Mon Mar 12
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Burnley - Official Match Thread
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And Rossal - that squad has got everything it deserved from those games you mention. The performances under Bilic and Moyes have been nothing short of shambolic in some of those games.
I honestly don't see this unbelievable set of players you do - Take out Reid, Zabaleta, Masuaka, Lanzini and Arnautovic - I just don't see what other people are.
The players take to the pitch - the players should know the system thats been set out - the players should know how to mark at corners - the players should be able to track men - the players should be able to pass to a team mate. Yes the manager shoulders the responsibility - but the players have to at some point stand up and be counted. The fact Ogbonna didn't get tight to Wood - then nobody tracked Barnes is down to their lack of desire to do basic things.
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brick_lane_batty_boy
2:34 Mon Mar 12
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Burnley - Official Match Thread
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Rossal 2:29 Mon Mar 12
I've not looked but that very well may be the case - But do you see any difference in the team ? In reality ?
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brick_lane_batty_boy
2:30 Mon Mar 12
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Burnley - Official Match Thread
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27/28 is not old for a footballer!!!! That is no excuse for me.
Do you genuinely think he's looked good at centre back?
I think my problem lies in the fact that it feels to me we've lost two of our top players from the last 4 years, in Cresswell and Kouyate - and apart from an injury or two, I don't know why they're so below the standards they set when they first joined. It's nothing to do with the manager - they were superb under Bilic - and fucking atrocious too.
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Rossal
2:29 Mon Mar 12
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Burnley - Official Match Thread
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brick_lane_batty_boy 2:16 Mon Mar 12
Im sure after the weekend Moyes' record is WORSE than Bilic's this season. Pretty sure i heard someone say walking out on saturday
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brick_lane_batty_boy
2:25 Mon Mar 12
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Burnley - Official Match Thread
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West Brom have swapped Pulis for Pardew - No change - if anything worse
Palace swapper De Boer for Hodgson - an improvement, but De Boer only got 4 games so who knows.
West Ham have swapped Bilic for Moyes - No change, maybe slight improvement
Stoke swapped Hughes for Lambert - No real drastic change
Swansea swapped for Carajval - complete change in fortune - look a different side.
Could you imagine the furore if we'd hired Caravel?! Fuck me, nicker wetting wouldn't have covered it.
Only 1 of 5 clubs that made a change have had a drastic turn around of fortune. A lot of the squads in and around us are just bang average.
I'm not a massive fan of Moyes - I just think the problems are deeper than the manager. That goes for the other clubs too not just ours.
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brick_lane_batty_boy
2:16 Mon Mar 12
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Burnley - Official Match Thread
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So thats two managers this season yielding the same results with the same squad ?
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Alex V
2:15 Mon Mar 12
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Burnley - Official Match Thread
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brick_lane_batty_boy 1:27 Mon Mar 12
>>> Mate he's 28 -are you being serious?
So you've noted his decline, I am explaining why that is. Wide players peak earlier.
>>> Zabaleta is 33 and our best player.
Opinions. For me one of our worst. We literally cannot deploy a back four he is such a liability at full back. Spirited yes, but absolutely finished as a player.
>>> He's playing at CB because we've rarely been able to field Reid/Collins/Ogbonna.
Imo he's playing there because he's done better than they have in the role. Simple as that.
>>> Why does age come into being able to take corners? He literally hits the first man every time
I didn't say age did come into that. But obviously as our leader in assists this season he's clearly doing something right.
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Rossal
2:12 Mon Mar 12
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Burnley - Official Match Thread
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brick_lane_batty_boy 1:48 Mon Mar 12
Should that squad have got more than 0 points 1 goal scored and 7 conceded against Swansea and Burnley?
Should that squad have not conceded 3 against Brighton, Newcastle and Bournemouth?
Should that squad have gone out the FA cup to league 1 opposition?
The answers to all of them are YES......in which case responsibility lies with the manager
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Rossal
2:02 Mon Mar 12
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Burnley - Official Match Thread
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The biggest threat from full back on the pitch was Stephen Ward!
A FULL back had more threat than both our WING backs
Is he better than Zaba or Antonio....no chance, is he better coached and part of a better side.....absolutely!
Moyes is shit, he showed glimpses at the start. But he has become what we all suspected when he was appointed
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brick_lane_batty_boy
1:48 Mon Mar 12
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Burnley - Official Match Thread
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Quick personal appraisal of our squad (from somebody that goes home and away)
Keepers - Adrian / Joe Hart - Adrian is a decent shot stopper i think we all agree - the rest of his game is suspect - less said about Joe Hart the better.
Right side - Zabaleta - best professional at the club, but 33 and on the descent now. Byram ? Who knows never plays, when he does I never think he should play every week which probably says it all.
Left Side - Cresswell / Masuaka - neither can defend to save their lives - Cresswells set pieces are the most frustrating thing i've seen over there and thats saying something. Masuaka is great going forward and we've missed him massively.
Centre backs - Reid - Best defender we've got but has had a stop start season - Collins is solid and reliable but as we all know, prone to the odd mistake - Ogbonna has not turned out to be the player I had hoped he would be - looked really good at times in the early days. Now constantly a yard off the pace. Positives in that Declan Rice will hopefully become a regular - but I fear this will be once we've been relegated.
Midfield - a vast chasm of nothingness - Nobles legs are gone and chases shadows (My opinion of him as a person is not related to his football) - Kouyate is a shadow of his former self - actually shocking how far he has fallen. We miss Obiang as he can actually pass a ball to his team mate. Outside of these maybe traditional 'sitting midfielders' (term used in its loosest sense) there's Edmilson and Josh Cullen. Enough said.
Attacking midfield - Once again, we've missed a consistently fit Antonio and Lanzini to give us some continuity. Joao Mario will continue to blow hot and cold - more cold than hot unfortunately - a player that neither creates a whole bunch, or actually gets in and helps out defensively. He keeps it ticking over, but Noble does that too.
Forwards - Arnie - thankfully turned a corner - and if it wasn't for him over the last 3 months - we would probably be below West Brom. Hernandez not deemed by management to be effective enough to start home games against Burnley. A consistently injured Andy Carroll and a guy we bought from Preston and nobody knows why.
If that is indeed a fine squad, then yep, it's a fine squad we have here.
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brick_lane_batty_boy
1:27 Mon Mar 12
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Burnley - Official Match Thread
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Mate he's 28 -are you being serious?
Zabaleta is 33 and our best player.
He's playing at CB because we've rarely been able to field Reid/Collins/Ogbonna.
Why does age come into being able to take corners? He literally hits the first man every time
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Alex V
1:21 Mon Mar 12
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Burnley - Official Match Thread
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brick_lane_batty_boy 1:07 Mon Mar 12
25/26 is physical peak, so he's simply in physical decline. Full back is a young man's game these days, wing-back even more so. We should have sold him last Summer or the Summer before that.
But the fact is he isn't going to overlap very often playing centre-back. The fact he does push forward and get the odd cross in is a bonus from that position. Although god knows where he was for Burnley's opener on Saturday.
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Buster
1:18 Mon Mar 12
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Burnley - Official Match Thread
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Bilic was 100% the right appointment at the right time.
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brick_lane_batty_boy
1:14 Mon Mar 12
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Burnley - Official Match Thread
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I've also already stated I didn't want Moyes - but unfortunately, the board have only ever made one correct hire at the right time - and that was Allardyce - he did the job we wanted him to do.
Zola
Grant
Allardyce
Bilic
Moyes
These kunts aren't fit to do the job of hiring managers. It's ridiculous how wrong and how often they get it wrong. Bilic wasn't the right hire - they genuinely haven't got a clue.
But the cancer in the club is the reason we're struggling - I honestly don't think it matters who would have come in - the problems would still be there.
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brick_lane_batty_boy
1:07 Mon Mar 12
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Burnley - Official Match Thread
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Alex V 1:01 Mon Mar 12
No shit? And whys that? Because he's absolutely dross as left wing back - would you say he's improved since his first 2 years at the club? Or gone backwards? Surely you're not supposed to get worse as your career progresses?
Has he covered himself in glory at left centre half? Has his crossing from corners been acceptable?
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brick_lane_batty_boy
1:05 Mon Mar 12
Re: ⚽ West Ham v Burnley - Official Match Thread
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Funny thing is - everything I've said I've backed up with valid points. You can't back up your statement of 'decent squad' - because it's not a decent squad. I'm up for debate ?
The board have not backed Bilic or Moyes when its blatantly obvious we are in risk of going down.
Patrice Evra
Joao Mario
Jordan Hugill
- When coupled with the sale of Diafra Sakho and Andre Ayew - this window was absolutely diabolical. Not Moyes fault. Don't care what you say about that.
The players have not stepped up - At Swansea they have worked together with the manager - they've bought into his philosophy. Could you have imagined if we'd hired Sheffield Wednesday's Manager who were incidentally below mid table when he left - on here? Fucking bedlam.
The players are as much responsible as the manager, but the buck stops with he board
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